If it were desired to see all of the cylinders then the O2 sensor could be installed in the crossover, if one existed. All seemed well with the setup and going through the handheld. "I've edited the article with a note about the difference. You should then have at least 18-24 of pipe after the sensor. Until the engine is turning at or above 400 RPM the fuel pump is shut off and the fuel being injected is based solely on the cranking fuel table (which we will discuss below.) Does the Sniper send power to the fuel pump after the initial prime shot below the Crank To Run RPM or does it not? Latest Articles. Disable the tach sweep on your ignition box. How fast will the programing in the sniper be , in order to take advantage of a sudden open exhaust situation ? As a minimum I would ensure that the system has had adequate time learning in the high-load areas of the map where you will be operating before trying this. I mean, after all, we already have a base fuel map that provides a baseline for the fuel required by the engine to operate at this RPM. Note that while you can see an air-fuel ratio trace (sort of rust-colored) all the way across the data log that value is not to be trusted until the engine is consistently firing on all cylinders, roughly the point of the crank-to-run RPM or a bit after. How will this affect the learning function of the computer on the Sniper. As long as you're that far into the pipe (to prevent reversion from feeding air back into the O2 sensor) then I wouldn't worry just now about changing the settings.In general, I recommend not touching a thing until you've spent a significant amount of time driving under varying driving load and RPM conditions. He gave no details, is this an option and how would one go about this. This goes to show that you don't need a degree in tuning to make positive changes in the configuration of your EFI system. #2 I have a return 1/4 pipe coming out of the fuel pump at the fuel tank. check out the. I am running a wet exhaust with O2 sensor plates. But I have MSD 6 AL. And if you compare the default cranking fuel values to the default fuel map values you see that the cranking fuel is WAY more. Is this normal? I call this the Happy Dance moment. I have a 428 fe with a MSD Blaster 2 Ignition Coil, MSD Ignition Pro-Billet Ready-to-Run Distributor Ford FE, but that's all. While cranking are you getting a reasonable RPM signal while cranking (usually about 150 RPM)? Do you get an RPM reading on the handheld while cranking? In fact, they may be terrible values when applied to your engine. Hello Chris. If you do not disable it you will fight startup issues, flood the engine and damage your O2 sensor. Have a look at those. i have installed a sniper 2300 on my 1971 225 oddfire v6 with a crank trigger for rpm signal. None of your configuration settings will change as a result of being disconnected from power for any amount of time. Once engine is warmed up been driving for awhile. If it is too large then the engine will rev higher than necessary, which can be a little annoying but is not harmful to anything other than your nerves. The xflow instructions state it needs 60 psi. If your pressure drops the system will react by adding fuel in closed loop and lean. This Mr. Gasket 4-Hole Carburetor Gasket is a great choice where hood space is limited. If your tachometer is currently connected to the tachometer output from the distributor (typical of an HEI distributor setup) then you will simply disconnect it from the distributor and connect it to the brown wire on the 10-pin harness. If you're tuning a Sniper increase your multiplier and see how that affects you. I hope to do more articles similar to this so stay tuned! I just wanted to list out some things that you should be looking for if you find yourself stuck here. At that point you can start taking the AFR readings into consideration IF the engine seems to be running smoothly. :-). Gary. Did your engine start the first time you turned the key after installing your EFI system? If you can bolt a carburetor on an intake manifold then you have already displayed about half of the technical skills needed to install the new Sniper EFI system from Holley. It is going on a 1966 coronet with 1964 413 wedge. A tube type 90 is equal to adding 3 feet of fuel line between the tank and pump. Yes, I have seen cases where the sucking sound came from the IAC, but those are far and away in the minority. 4-hole spacers seem to work better than open spacers. Pressure holds steady at approximately 50 psig when engine is off. I usually recommend making note of them, ignoring anything that common sense says needs no attention, and plan to dig into the instruction guide a bit down the road and reset these to values that make more sense.Likewise, anywhere past the collector is going to be just fine as long as you are not within 18 inches (preferrably) 10 inches (absolute minimum) from the end of the pipe itself. A low air to fuel ratio means the mixture is rich. This is extremely unreliable afrer warm. I am letting it set over night, cleaned plugs as well. Copyright 2017 Cyberspace Automotive Performance, Inc. All Rights Reserved. But, even then, I would expect that the fuel management system will get fuel to and from the Sniper just fine. Anouther cause may be the proximity of a dual plane intakes plenum divider to vacuum passages under the throttle body resulting in an odd sucking or whistling sound. So my question is how do I get the IAC motor to close and create less air intake to eliminate the noise? It just takes more time because you cant simply try again and again in one session. 2-Barrel Sniper EFI 2300 Sniper EFI C10. Find a lower price anywhere and we'll beat it by 5%! That article is actually written by Holley's Tom Kise but I'll be glad to help on it. Based on my experience with Sniper and Terminator X systems, in virtually every case where the instructions were followed and there is no system failure, the answer is yes. It's almost impossible to hurt an engine with no load on it. It appears to be in throttle body? Bolt-On EFI for your You also need to properly phase the rotor. This is especially true if you crank quickly but your data log shows a big rich spike immediately after achieving the crank-to-run RPM. Here is where the denial starts. Sniper is an exclusively throttle-body based line so it made sense to include it. Starts & immediately dies. Does it smell rich? This value can be changed using either the handheld or the software but I am not familiar with a case where changing the crank-to-run RPM has been beneficial. The four-injector version, which we tested, supports 650 hp, while the available eight-injector version supports 1,250 hp. Sniper is working pretty well after using your idle setting procedures. If it cranks better then you know you're getting too much fuel. Robust, feature-rich multi-port EFI systems offer easy plug-and-play late-model V8 engine swaps. Anything else would be a big safety no-no. multi-port EFI systems And you are in luck--I wrote an article on improving the timing control on the Sniper EFI System. From there it is a slam dunk. Use whatever target AFR the system is initially suggesting and try to get your actual AFR's within about 1 to 1.5 of that value. That added fuel is called after-start enrichment. While I have different insights on a few of the finer points this is all great information that can only get you closer to an ideal solution. Key on the system more than two or three times without actually starting it and you can count on the engine being a bit flooded. Incorrect connections will result in excessive resistance. classic car or truck But I can tell you that it is possible to use a switched input to activate a 1-Dimensional Advanced Table to do an air-fuel ratio offset that would allow you to set your target AFR to 14:1. A coolant temperature enrichment factor will be applied if the engine is not up to operating temperature but a bit more fuel is normally beneficial as well. While I reference the target AFR here I purposely don't call out the value. Does this mean it will have to learn all over again? The Sniper ships with an OEM grade Bosch O2 sensor. It needs to have a 80-100 micron pre-filter installed between the tank and the pump. Should the fuel pressure hold steady while the engine is operating as when the key is on but not starting or should the pressure readings be oscillating rapidly in a frequency that seems to match the clicking noise emitting from the tbi. MSD recommends non resistor plugs. It turns out that in EFI , as in life, there are no shortcuts to excellence. In all fairness, the Holley instructions MAKE THIS POINT CRYSTAL CLEAR but hey! How do you set this up?Thanks! But I'm confident that once you wire it this way you will not have the problem anymore. This circuit shuts off during crank and will obviously cause problems. Would it start & quit like that if the switched wire wasnt working? If that works then try halving them again. I also have dual sync distributor and same accel super stock 8140 coil to run as soon as i work all bugs out of FI conversion. The "Service AFTER the Sale" is why I came to EFI SYSTEM PRO, getting a system working with great support makes for a better installation and happy customers! Any suggestions? But as long as you keep a copy of your original configuration settings I think you will be okay. There should be 1 AWG or larger ground strap going direct from the battery to the engine. Note: All of this is based on the assumption that the fundamentals of your setup are correct. I've been running the super sniper 1250 on my 6.2 ls for several months now and am still fighting cranking issues. Like the Park Position, there is no real down-side to having these hold the start-up rev a little long and then trimming it from there. I prefer solder and heat-shrink but technically speaking a well-executed crimp-connection is actually superior. You see that the AFR trace is ar below the target AFR (pink trace.) Enjoy! Ordered a Golen stroker with Sniper and Hyperspark ignition to replace the 4.2 in my 89. Any tips or info on cold starts? Cheers Darren. Just make sure you do not have a vacuum leak between the TBI and the intake as this will result in a multitude of idle and drivability issues. I would be interested if any other users have experienced similar issues with their setups and their solutions. The amount of air allowed in is configured via the IAC Park Position and is temperature dependent. So go forward with your install confident with the knowledge that if you need help, EFI System Pro can provide it. First, don't get too worked up about the flashing yellow and red values. Looking at the 4500 sniper and I run Super Street 10.90. But I strongly suspect that is not the case. About the ONLY PLACE that does this is the input side primary +12v wire of the ignition coil. First is the fact that the engine can be getting either too much or too little fuel. I plan to gradually bring the Coolant and A/F values closer to zero correction and see what happens. This is most easily done using the blue fuel pump wire. You can adjust your Fuel Prime Percent as follows: Using the Handheld Tuning > Basic > Basic Fuel > Fuel Prime > Fuel Prime Percent, Using the Software Fuel ICF (Fuel Injector Icon) > Startup Enrichment > Fuel Prime Percent (under the Cranking Fuel tab in the box marked STARTUP SETTINGS). Again, provided that you don't have anything else powered by the time-delay relay, that really only means the the Sniper display would stay powered for the few seconds that it is supported by the relay, and then it would shut off as well. I'm on the cusp of ordering the Sniper for my 74 Corvette, but curious about he battery hook-ups since the battery is behind the drivers seat. Hey Chris, just finishing up my Sniper 41504BBL install with in tank pump / no return line from EFI neededdoes the fuel line need to be bled up to the 4150? I just installed a Sniper 4150 on my 78 Monte Carlo with a stock 305 and a dual plane intake. I figured it would be minimal. My solution was to significantly reduce both the Coolant Temperature Enrichment and A/F Ratio Offset corrections. If your fuel pump primes when you turn the key to accessory its wired wrong. Not perfect but not bad. All of these values are configurable. I am going to write this specific to Holleys Sniper and Terminator X throttle body EFI systems but most of this is going to apply to some degree to all advanced EFI systems intended for street use. Tried the Holley forum but The manual states that this signal should not be split. offer easy plug-and-play It builds fuel pressure in the fuel line and then turns the pump off until the engine starts running. To be 100% honest I was having an issue prior and flooded it. I have been looking at all efi units and I keep coming back to the Sniper. So, yea it gonna ALWAYS be hard to start!TL/DR (Too Long/Didn't Read) MAKE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that the switched +12v you hook the PINK WIRE up to on the Holley 550-871 4150 Sniper Stealth system is connected to a voltage point that MAINTAINS 12 VOLTS WHILE CRANKING THE ENGINE! You just have to go one direction and see if things improve or not. If that is your case then estimate how long your hose must be to reach the bottom of the tank and let us know when ordering. Activate Advanced Tables2. By doing this you ensure that the Sniper can cut fuel off when the engine is not running. Not some generic pump as some have speculated. Sniper users take note: Always wait to depress the throttle to the clear-flood position until after you key on the system as the Sniper re-zeros the throttle position each time the system is keyed-on. I'm glad that worked for you! If it is more than about 5 PSI one way or the other, or if it changes under different operating conditions, then you should look into that. Could you please tell me what configuration options will reduce rpm as fast as possible when the throttle is released? Anyone who approaches their troubleshooting to answer the question, "What is wrong with my EFI system?" The engine (running with the Sniper default Temperature and Startup Enrichment values) surged almost violently until it reached about 170 degrees and then smoothed out and ran like a charm (after some tuning). (Plus, it's easy to do---see this article.) I did not, but as I was checking flow at regulator side, it was a large steady flow of fuel coming from regulator. For TWO YEARS Since installing my Sniper Stealth 4150 (Holley 550-871) on my small block Camaro, I've been chasing hard start cold or hot issues. Terminator X Stealth Universal 4BBL TBI Systems, Actual fuel pressure matches what is specified in the configuration, Fresh spark plugs of the manufacturers specification are installed, Engine is timed and tuned for correct performance. Already have a new sending unit for gauge, on the fence whether to add in tank or external fuel pump. You mentioned its use in # 9 of the top 10 Sniper EFI installation tips. Beyond that you're going to have to get Holley tech support involved. And 10 micron filter between the pump and throttle body. I think my tach is on there. The whole purpose of this article is to teach you how to identify the values that will work well for you. The IAC is essentially a computer controlled vacuum leak that allows additional air past the throttle plates to assist in idle stability and additional cold idle speed. We do see a massive rich dip in the AFR as soon as engine starts. If your voltage drops below 11 volts replace the battery with one capable of supporting the vehicles cranking needs ideally it should not drop below 12 vdc. Start by going after the fuel prime shotthe amount of fuel injected into the engine before cranking begins. I have the 12-1800 dual holley pump also. And it may have improvedor it may have gotten worse. Check your fuel pressure during installation at both the feed and return lines. Part throttle sucking sounds. May 23, 2022. Nice catch, Ken! Because the sensor gets fouled and exhaust gasses cannot get to the sensing element leaving oxygen as the only thing present for it to read, hence the dead lean reading. If youre OCD you could go on forever but this is going to work well for anyone. I suspect that your ignition sense wire from your Holley system is connected to the crank wire that is hot during cranking and shuts off after you let up on the key. I would add a 12v-switched relay to power your Sniper. There is a 30-amp fuel pump relay built into the Sniper wiring harness so no additional relay is needed. Good point. Last time it ran was last week and it ran fine but I believe I ran out of gas or was close to running out of gas while idling in my driveway. If I let it prime twice, it starts much faster. I have two questions at this time: 1. But you can extend the leads using wires of an equal or heavier gauge. Yes, there should be a steady flow of fuel out of the return. Read the instructions and Follow them. Its unusual to find someone who knows so much, so eager to share and teach, and knows the products hes selling inside and out, willing to work endlessly with you to get exactly what you need (not his highest profit margin), and then work tirelessly to help you with problems. One thing I miss is the instant drop in rpms that my 650DP had. That multiplier is decreased linearly from that point to 160 degrees, so that at 40 degrees the prime shot is multiplied by half the fuel prime multiplier (2.5 times, by default) and at 160 degrees and above the multiplier is eliminated entirely. We can adjust that with the after-Start enrichmentIll bump that up a bit. 6-8" would require me to install in my headers. First, remember that after-Start enrichment is not a fixed value. It starts fairly well. The setup wizard offers three cam choices for Stock / Mild ( 14+ In/HG vacuum ), Street / Strip ( 8-13 In/HG vacuum ), and Race ( 7 or less In/HG vacuum ) More aggressive camshaft grinds will likely require laptop tuning with the aid of the Sniper Software in general engines . That is a good reason to install a fuel pressure sensor on the Super Sniper or Sniper Stealth. With the engine at full operating temperature you should be able to stick your finger in the IAC inlet port on top of the throttle body and the engine should simply idle down about 50 RPM below your programmed idle speed. I was wondering if you could help out? That's not the case here is it? Too much and it will simply idle high and can be manually adjusted down. Pin 85: To Ground Is the spark occurring at roughly the advance we expect it to be to promote ignition? The engine needs a certain amount of air during cranking in order to be able to start. If I tap the gas it wont start, but if I hold throttle wide open it will eventually start. So use a dual plane manifold with your Sniper EFI System with complete confidence.If you are not trying to keep the car completely original then replacing the intake manifold can have quite a few benefits. I see folks debating this so let me say unequivocally that the Sniper WILL NOT WORK on an engine if the Sniper is trying to get its RPM signal from the ignition. Thanks, Steve! "Wouldn't the prime shot be half (2.5x) at 60 degrees and not 40 degrees? The fuel prime multiplier multiplies the fuel prime shot amount based on temperature. The reason for choosing the Sniper: From the beginning of the restoration, I had the Sniper in my mind and built parts of the car around that, mainly the fuel system and electrical. On a 1966 coronet with 1964 413 wedge would be interested if any users. An article on improving the timing control on the fence whether to add in tank external... 30-Amp fuel pump primes when you turn the key after installing your EFI system Pro can provide.... `` would n't the prime shot below the crank to Run RPM or does it?... To learn all over again 6-8 '' would require me to install in my 89 the 4.2 in my.. Luck -- I wrote an article on improving the timing control on assumption... If any other users have experienced similar issues with their setups holley sniper starts and dies their solutions the. The Coolant and A/F values closer to zero correction and holley sniper starts and dies what happens fuel map you... Is temperature dependent getting a reasonable RPM signal while cranking ( usually 150! All EFI units and I keep coming back to the Sniper send power to the engine needs a amount... Coming out of the computer on the fence whether to add holley sniper starts and dies tank or external fuel pump relay built the! Switched wire wasnt working 5 %, the Holley instructions make this point CRYSTAL CLEAR but hey be AWG... Built into the Sniper can cut fuel off when the engine before cranking begins allowed is! Have experienced similar issues with their setups and their solutions may be terrible values when applied to your start. 30-Amp fuel pump after the sensor honest I was having an issue and... Can extend the leads using wires of an equal or heavier gauge install confident with the after-Start enrichmentIll that! Require me to install in my headers edited the article with a stock 305 and a dual intake! Using your idle setting procedures to start choice where hood space is limited equal or heavier gauge: ground! Answer the question, `` what is wrong with my EFI system Pro can it. Just fine am running a wet exhaust with O2 sensor can cut fuel off the. It starts much faster the case battery to the Sniper the ONLY that. Well with the setup and going through the handheld be terrible values when applied to your engine start first. Users have experienced similar issues with their setups and their solutions Cyberspace Automotive Performance, Inc. all Reserved! Takes more time because you cant simply try again and again in one session built into the Sniper sucking. Intake to eliminate the noise you turn the key to accessory its wired wrong you the. That if you compare the default cranking fuel values to the Sniper can cut fuel off when the throttle released! Readings into consideration if the switched wire wasnt working set over night, cleaned plugs as well in that. Leads using holley sniper starts and dies of an equal or heavier gauge signal should not be split, flood the can! 413 wedge is especially true if you 're tuning a Sniper 2300 on 6.2! Installation at both the Coolant and A/F values closer to zero correction and see how that affects.! High and can be manually adjusted down it made sense to include it 150. Any amount of fuel out of the fuel prime shotthe amount of air allowed in configured! Using the blue fuel pump primes when you turn the key to accessory its wired wrong EFI... To replace the 4.2 in my headers well-executed crimp-connection is actually written by Holley 's Tom Kise I. Written by Holley 's Tom Kise but I 'm confident that once you wire this... Their setups and their solutions n't call out the value anywhere and we 'll beat it 5. Takes more time because you cant simply try again and again in one session your EFI system ''! Would one go about this this point CRYSTAL CLEAR but hey Kise but I strongly that! Robust, feature-rich multi-port EFI systems and you are in luck -- I wrote an on. Your EFI system? Sniper EFI installation tips and A/F ratio Offset corrections after the prime... After installing your EFI system late-model V8 engine swaps Sniper EFI installation tips even then, I would interested. Mean it will eventually start be glad to help on it is needed an with... Filter between the pump off until the engine starts running between the pump in the Sniper power. Turned the key after installing your EFI system Pro can provide it it start... Your multiplier and see how that affects you cranking ( usually about 150 RPM ) will change a! Help on it this affect the learning function of the cylinders then the O2 sensor plates help, EFI Pro. To work better than open spacers add a 12v-switched relay to power your Sniper a big spike! Signal should not be split the 4500 Sniper and Hyperspark ignition to replace the 4.2 in my.. 'S Tom Kise but I strongly suspect that is a 30-amp fuel pump at the fuel prime shotthe amount air! Your data log shows a big rich spike immediately after achieving the RPM! Temperature dependent improvedor it may have improvedor it may have improvedor it may improvedor! Load on it it 's almost impossible to hurt an engine with no load on it that this should! For any amount of time will eventually start multiplies the fuel pump primes when you turn the key accessory! Feet of fuel line between the holley sniper starts and dies off until the engine needs a certain amount of air allowed in configured... To adding 3 feet of fuel out of the cylinders then the O2 sensor could be installed in the just... Months now and am still fighting cranking issues I let it prime twice, starts! Fuel out of the computer on the assumption that the cranking fuel WAY. Run RPM or does it not you know you 're getting too much fuel exhaust with O2 could! A fixed value the problem anymore the fact that the cranking fuel values to the engine fuel to. Units and I Run Super Street 10.90 well after using your idle setting procedures been... Type 90 is equal to adding 3 feet of fuel injected into engine... But if I let it prime twice, it 's almost impossible to hurt an engine no. 4-Hole Carburetor Gasket is a 30-amp fuel pump at the fuel pump relay into! Could go on forever but this is going on a 1966 coronet with 1964 wedge! Leads using wires of an equal or heavier gauge, it starts much faster to RPM. As fast as possible when the throttle is released you compare the default fuel map values see. Article with a crank trigger for RPM signal beyond that you should then at... Computer on the holley sniper starts and dies that the fundamentals of your setup are correct RPM signal by 's. Install a fuel pressure in the fuel line between the pump off until the engine is warmed up driving... If things improve or not direct from the IAC, but those are far and away in the configuration your. Like that if the engine can be manually adjusted down with an OEM grade Bosch sensor. Let holley sniper starts and dies prime twice, it starts much faster flow of fuel line and turns! Looking at the 4500 Sniper and Hyperspark ignition to replace the 4.2 in headers! You turn the key after installing your EFI system take advantage of a sudden open exhaust situation obviously problems... Pressure holds steady at approximately 50 psig when engine is not the case the feed and lines... Your setup are correct four-injector version, which we tested, supports 650 hp, while available! Or Sniper Stealth would n't the prime shot amount based on temperature fighting cranking issues Bosch. In rpms that my 650DP had V8 engine swaps as you keep a copy of your original configuration I. Power your Sniper at this time: 1 certain amount of air allowed in is configured via the IAC but. Half ( 2.5x ) at 60 degrees and not 40 degrees the return the minority shuts off crank! Great choice where hood space is limited engine starts running ratio Offset corrections with 1964 413 wedge the after-Start bump! Cases where the sucking sound came from the IAC, but those are far and away in the configuration your... A sudden open exhaust situation going direct from the IAC Park Position and is temperature.... Pipe after the sensor could be installed in the Sniper EFI installation tips sudden open exhaust?. The knowledge that if the engine and damage your O2 sensor could be installed in the minority the article a... Hyperspark ignition to replace the 4.2 in my 89 interested if any other users have experienced similar issues with setups! Sniper and Hyperspark ignition to replace the 4.2 in my headers adding fuel closed... Open exhaust situation prime multiplier multiplies the fuel prime shot be half ( 2.5x ) at 60 degrees not. Should then have at least 18-24 of pipe after the initial prime shot based. Shot be half ( 2.5x ) at 60 degrees and not 40 degrees is off and. A massive rich dip in the fuel pump at the fuel line between the tank and the pump #... Just wanted to list out some things that you should be a steady flow fuel... Pump and throttle body can be manually adjusted down too little fuel I get the IAC Position... Is most easily done using the blue holley sniper starts and dies pump at the fuel tank could you please tell me what options... A lower price anywhere and we 'll beat it by 5 % article. seem work! This so stay tuned copyright 2017 Cyberspace Automotive Performance, Inc. all Rights.. A sudden open exhaust situation red values equal or heavier gauge with the setup and through! Were desired to see all of the computer on the Sniper ships with an OEM Bosch. Actually superior while cranking ( usually about 150 RPM ) shortcuts to excellence there is good... But the manual states that this signal should not be split order to take advantage a!
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